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Author Topic: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
pookie
Nakomé (Clanless)
Posts: 2
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 19, 2014, 16:21

Would it be possible to fix all of the hyphenated words?
This and similar examples are hideous... (especially when you are using an em dash elsewhere).

role - playing
science - fantasy (two words, no hyphen)
player - characters (this needs no hyphen, it is two words)
resort - world

jeffdee
Administrator
Posts: 427
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 19, 2014, 21:52

Yes, bad hyphenations were already caught and fixed.

-Jeff

Nick Bogan
Nakomé (Clanless)
Posts: 9
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 22, 2014, 19:46

A few rules comments:

Sample characters, both beginning and experienced, and including spellcasters, would be helpful as examples.

You may recall my article Converting Creatures in Seal 2:1, in which I was critical of the limited range of HP and attack scores for creatures in T:EPT versus the ranges shown in previous Tekumel games. Bethorm is better on this score, but I would be happier if creatures that are larger or tougher than humans had the hits in their base stats scaled up by about 50% by increasing their PHYS by 1 point. As an example, the big creatures--the Zo'ora, or the largest Akho, Sro, etc.--should all, IMO, have over 100 hits, some well over, relative to the human standard of 10 hits. This would give a range of creature hits similar to the original EPT or to Gardasiyal. (On the other hand, the attack scores look OK to me, given the non-linear probabilities of the 2d10 skill roll.)

How are multiple attacks for multi-limbed creatures handled? I don't see rules for them.

Lastly, it's downright odd to see Ahoggya temple spellcasters! Which Temples would let these louts in? I thought that Ahoggya spellcasters of any sort would be rarer than hens' teeth, let alone Temple spellcasters.

jeffdee
Administrator
Posts: 427
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 23, 2014, 14:25

1) I'm working on a sample character to include in the final version.

2) The Gardasiyal Bestiary was the source I used for creature stats. I didn't directly convert from 'size' to 'hit points' - I converted from 'HBS' to 'danger rating'. HBS is a kind of overall combat rating in Gardasiyal, and that's what the danger ratings represent in my Pocket Universe system. Then it was a matter of assigning Pocket Universe stats which added up to a danger rating that matched the Gardasiyal HBS. Obviously I tried to weight it toward higher PHYS scores for larger creatures, but my goal was to make sure that at the end of the day the fights would come out roughly the same as in Gardasiyal. It's important to note also that in Pocket Universe, doubling a creature's mass doesn't double its hit points. So that may be throwing off your expectations a bit, too.

3) Multi-limbed creatures use the exact same multi-attack rules as humans (9.5.15). Some creatures also have Ambidexterity, which follows the same rules as the human advantage of the same name. Of course some creatures may be able to use multiple weapons AND carry a shield, if they have enough hands.

4) "Temple Sorcerer" means that the NPC can cast spells up to "Temple" level, not that they are necessarily members of a temple's hierarchy. Of course those spells (as well as Generic level ones) are closely guarded 'secrets' of the Tsolyani temples, so you're right in that Ahoggya sorcerers would rarely have access to them, at least through the fastidious Tsolyani temples. I didn't consider that sufficient grounds to exclude Ahoggya sorcerers with spells of those levels from the Bestiary section. GMs may of course refrain from using such unusually highly-trained Ahoggya sorcerers in their adventures.

-Jeff

Nick Bogan
Nakomé (Clanless)
Posts: 9
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 24, 2014, 18:51

2) It still seems to me that hits vs critical wounds (assuming 1 Gardasiyal critical wound is about 10 Bethorm hits, based on humans, which lines up with Gardasiyal's HP to QP conversion too) would line up better for the big creatures with a one-point PHYS increase. For example:

Akho (small/medium/large)
EPT: HD 6/10/16
Gardasiyal: Crits 4/7/13
Bethorm as is: Hits 20/40/57
Bethorm, +1 PHYS: 28/57/80

Serudla (small/medium/large)
EPT: HD 5/8/12
Gardasiyal: Crits 4/7/11
Bethorm as is: Hits 28/40/57
Bethorm, +1 PHYS: 40/57/80

Sro (small/medium/large)
EPT: HD 5/9/13
Gardasiyal: Crits 9/15
Bethorm as is: Hits 57/80/113
Bethorm, +1 PHYS: 80/113/160

Zo'ora
Gardasiyal: Crits 15
Bethorm as is: Hits 80
Bethorm, +1 PHYS: 113

Have you posted your formula for danger rating, or the relationship you derived between HBS and danger rating? I would like to check them out. I wonder if you might have underrated the effect of high HBS, the effects of which compound with each round. In any event, a Bethorm GM needs the danger rating formula in order to compute this for new creatures.

3) I'm not clear on how the multi-attack rules you cited work for creatures. Taking the extreme example of the Akho, do they get 20 attacks at -1 to hit? Would an off-hand penalty apply to them? Can they use all 20 attacks against a single opponent, regardless of size?

jeffdee
Administrator
Posts: 427
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 24, 2014, 19:22

2) You can modify Bethorm's creature stats to suit yourself using the procedure described in 16.1.2. I think if you play Bethorm as written, though, you'll find that the fights play out pretty much as you'd expect.

3) What part of the multiple attack rules is unclear? Perhaps you have some preconceptions, based on other rules sets, which do not apply in this system 🙂

-Jeff

jeffdee
Administrator
Posts: 427
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 24, 2014, 19:37

Look at it this way:

In Bethorm, a typical sword deals an average of 5 physical damage per hit. A *small* Akho has 20 hit points, and 4 physical armor protection. This means that in order to take it out, a typical beginning PC has to hit it 20 times. Meanwhile, its tentacles deal an average of 7 physical damage, vs. typical Chlen-hide armor protection of 2, so it will take out a typical beginning PC (with 10 hit points) in 2 hits. Surely *that* is the important thing, and not a focus on how many hit points an Akho has got in Bethorm compared to how many it has got in other game systems? Each system has its own way of doing things, and its own reasons for doing them that way.

-Jeff

luther
Dlántü (Clan-Head)
Posts: 133
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 26, 2014, 06:51

Finally back to reading. I apologize if some of these have already been reported.

P 41 Botany (INTL/ -1, High Status)
Remembering facts about certain plants takes no time, but performing a systematic study of a plant species could take weeks or ever years.

P 43 Fashion, end of 2nd paragraph
There is are no Forms for sleeping, working at a daily job, going shopping, casual visits, etc.

P 43, Insight (WILL/ -1, Any Status) This skill is used to get a sense of someone's by watching their body language, listening to their tone of voice, and paying attention to their manner of speech.

P 45, Negotiate (INTL/ -1, Any Status) This skill is used for haggling and debate. Each attempt takes about a minute.

Start with a deal that is evenly exactly balanced,

p 49, Write Music (INTL/ -4, Any Status)
..., but characters with one Write Music specialization may the other specialization at only a -1 penalty for unskilled use. Each attempt takes about an hour.

P 49, language list
Tsoléi'i (Tsoléi Archipelago in the western sea)
Tsolei'i is not in bold like the other language names.

P 50
3.10.5.5 Nonhuman Character Language

Nonhumans are in the same situation as foreigners (above), except that their languages are nearly impossible for humans to master. The GM may allow a human character to learn a nonhuman language only if the human character's background is specially to justify it (example: Harsan, from Prof. Barker's Tékumel novels, was raised by Pé Choi). Even then, human characters must pay triple the normal number of EPs to learn a nonhuman language.

P 55, 4.6.3 Coverage

Full Helm has a single * in the chart, but the relative foot note has **

jeffdee
Administrator
Posts: 427
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 26, 2014, 07:01

Thanks, luther!

Fixed.

-Jeff

luther
Dlántü (Clan-Head)
Posts: 133
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 26, 2014, 16:26

You are very welcome. There are benefits to having to sit for hours watching software install. 😉

Oh, and love the new graphic!

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