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Author Topic: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
luther
Dlántü (Clan-Head)
Posts: 133
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 29, 2014, 11:09

P64, 5.2.2 NPC Interests and Dislikes

Roll a d10 to find the number of topics of more than passing interest to the character: 1 = 0 topics; 2-3 = 1 topics; 4-7 = 2 topics; 8-9 = 3 topics; 10 = 4 topics.

(2-3= 1 topic)

P64, 5.2.3 NPC Phobias

Out of a large population, only a very few persons evince powerful phobias: irrational fears or loathing. An individual NPC displays a phobia only on a d100 score of 96-100. A second d100 roll then identifies the phobia from the list below:
(The table has 20 items and looks set up to roll D20. Change table to 5% increments (e.g., 01-05, 06-10, etc.?)

P64, 6.1 Initiative

...; dice off if DEFT is also tied.
("dice off" might be rephrased to be more clear that this is rolling dice, high die wins (if that is what is meant) The term "dice off" may be too local to Mr. Dee's gaming group. At least, it threw me the first time I read it. Perhaps I'm just not as integrated into the broader gaming community.)

luther
Dlántü (Clan-Head)
Posts: 133
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 29, 2014, 12:45

P. 66, 7.7.0.1 Rowing Movement per Combat Round

Fast and Ram have * after them. It looks like the footnote for the 7.7.0.1 table is missing.

luther
Dlántü (Clan-Head)
Posts: 133
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 29, 2014, 12:48

P. 66, 8.0 Skill & Attribute Checks
"To successfully use an Attribute or skill,..." Since you capitalized "Attribute", I'm thinking you meant to do the same for "Skill" when it appears twice in this paragraph.

OK. Reading further I see you routinely capitalize "Attribute" but not "skill". I'll assume that is intentional, but will leave this note in case it is not and you meant to capitalize "skill" whenever it appears in the text in the same way you capitalized "Attribute".

And reading even further, I see "attribute" is not capitalized universally. Perhaps it was not intended to be capitalized in the instances that I have noted. Mr. Dee's call, of course.

luther
Dlántü (Clan-Head)
Posts: 133
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 29, 2014, 13:01

P. 67. 8.0.8 Multiple Actions

If an Action that doesn’t normally require a check is part of a multiple Action, give that Action a base chance of 16- and then apply the multiple Action penalty.

Is the "-" after "16" intentional?

luther
Dlántü (Clan-Head)
Posts: 133
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 29, 2014, 13:03

I like the idea of the Role Playing Bonus of 8.0.7.

luther
Dlántü (Clan-Head)
Posts: 133
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 29, 2014, 13:24

P. 69, 8.4 Lock - Picking Checks
Each check takes a full Turn. A failure sets off any alarms or traps attached to the lock, and the character must start the process over again from the beginning but they may try again. A fumble causes the character to abort (their pick breaks off in the lock, or they determine that you need specialized tools, etc.).

Perhaps rewrite as:

Each check takes a full Turn. A failure sets off any alarms or traps attached to the lock. They may try again, but must start the process over again from the beginning. A fumble causes the character to abort (e.g., their pick breaks off in the lock, or they determine that you need specialized tools, etc.).

Nick Bogan
Nakomé (Clanless)
Posts: 9
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 29, 2014, 19:02

Returning to my concern about the HP ratio of large creatures to humans, I worked through your small Akho vs human example in Gardasiyal using the QP system. (This reminded me how much I dislike the stock combat rules in that game: too many cascading table-to-table resolutions, which is why I wrote a homebrew version.)

Small Akho: HBS 150, damage table E, 4 critical hits, -7 QP defensive wound severity modifier due to -4 armor rating, +2 offensive wound severity modifier due to HBS.

Average human with long sword: HBS 100, damage table D (10 skill levels), 1 critical hit, -4 QP defensive wound severity modifier due to medium armor, +2 offensive wound severity modifier due to weapon skill.

Due to their HBS scores, the Akho has a 50% chance to hit, while the human has a 30% chance.

(Apologies for the lack of formatting for the tables)
Human: Damage table D against -5 wound severity modifier
Wound type Chances out of 20 Damage Avg damage
No effect 7 0 0
Minor 4 0.25 0.05
Serious 8 0.5 0.2
Critical 0 1 0
Kill 1 2 0.1
20 Avg: 0.35

Akho: Damage table E against -2 wound severity modifier
Wound type Chances out of 20 Damage Avg damage
No effect 3 0 0
Minor 5 0.25 0.0625
Serious 6 0.5 0.15
Critical 5 1 0.25
Kill 1 2 0.1
20 Avg: 0.5625

Human: Damage table E against -5 wound severity modifier
Wound type Chances out of 20 Damage Avg damage
No effect 6 0 0
Minor 5 0.25 0.0625
Serious 6 0.5 0.15
Critical 2 1 0.1
Kill 1 2 0.1
20 Avg: 0.4125

We see that the human will, on average, be killed by about two hits from the Akho, the same as in Bethorm, requiring four attacks, implying that the Akho could kill up five such people per round if it could bring all its tentacles to bear and they were within melee range. To kill the Akho using damage table D will take 4 critical wounds / (0.35 critical wounds per hit * 30% chance to hit), or about 11 hits over 38 attacks.

If the human has a weapon that hits on damage table E, like a pole arm, this becomes 10 hits over 32 attacks, a modest increase. On the other hand, if we give the human a long sword in Bethorm, then their average damage goes up from 5 to 6, doing twice as much damage to the Akho on a hit, and thus the human then requires only 10 hits to slay the Akho. The armor-penetrating damage goes up even more with a bastard sword or other larger weapons.

In summary: You've deflated attack damage and hits in Bethorm substantially compared to Gardasiyal, more so for the larger creatures, which is what looked wrong to me. You compensated by changing the armor ratios in favor of the powerful creatures: many of them have 4 points of armor vs physical attacks, better than even steel plate at 3 points, whereas in Gardasiyal, steel plate in the HP system has a -6 armor modifier, as good as nearly any creature's armor. (Bethorm's attack damage ratios between characters and creatures appear to be about the same as Gardasiyal's, on the other hand.) However, this relative increase in creatures' armor is more than offset by a relatively wider range of weapon damages in Bethorm vs Gardasiyal. Thus, creatures will not be able to take as many hits from large weapons in Bethorm as in Gardasiyal.

As for the multiple attack rules, my point was that they only sound meaningful for two-armed humanoids. I don't know if they apply to other creatures. (I don't even know if the idea of an "off hand" applies to a Pe Choi, let alone an Akho.) It would seem a lot easier to me to just list the number of attacks for the relatively few many-limbed creatures.

jeffdee
Administrator
Posts: 427
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 29, 2014, 19:24

"creatures will not be able to take as many hits from large weapons in Bethorm as in Gardasiyal."

The reduced accuracy of larger weapons in Bethorm will offset this to some degree. At which point, I think we are well and truly picking nits 🙂

"It would seem a lot easier to me to just list the number of attacks for the relatively few many-limbed creatures."

There is no "number of attacks for many-limbed creatures" in Bethorm. Every creature, regardless of how many limbs its got, gets one attack at no penalty or an arbitrary number of multiple attacks with slightly different penalties depending on whether it has the Ambidexterity advantage.

-Jeff

jeffdee
Administrator
Posts: 427
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 29, 2014, 21:11

P64, 5.2.2 NPC Interests and Dislikes
2-3 = 1 topics
Fixed.

P64, 5.2.3 NPC Phobias
Change table to 5% increments
Fixed.

P64, 6.1 Initiative
...; dice off if DEFT is also tied.
I think the phrase "dice off" is pretty standard, but I re-phrased in anyway because why not.

P. 66, 7.7.0.1 Rowing Movement per Combat Round
It looks like the footnote for the 7.7.0.1 table is missing.
Fixed.

P. 66, 8.0 Skill & Attribute Checks
"attribute" is not capitalized universally.
Fixed. The same problem existed with the word "skill": I fixed that, too.

P. 67. 8.0.8 Multiple Actions
Is the "-" after "16" intentional?
Yes, but saying "16 or less" would be clearer. Fixed.

Nick Bogan
Nakomé (Clanless)
Posts: 9
Post Re: Bethorm Pre-Release Feedback
on: September 30, 2014, 06:46

Re: "picking nits", I'll stop picking at the HP & damage ratios.

Re: multiple attack rules, having reviewed sections 8.0.8 (Multiple Actions) and 9.5.15 (Two Weapon Combat), the bestiary section should refer to these sections to address the topic clearly, and it's just silly that (again picking the extreme case) an Akho gets the same number of attacks for a given penalty to-hit as a two-armed creature. It should have a few levels of Ambidexterity, so it can attack with at least 4 or 8 tentacles without penalty. I think that it would be helpful to call out the number of possible attacks per type in the stat block.

(As an aside, I vote against the inclusion of the picture of the damsel in distress [is it Eyil hiVriyen?] on p. 75. It seems needlessly prurient.)

Headers or footers that show the section would be helpful when paging through the book and traversing large sections (the Bestiary or the spell corpus, for example).

The stiletto and cudgel in section 4.1 have their low/medium/high damage values out of order (2/1/2).

Even after looking at section 9.3 (Combat Critical Tables), I don't see how it's possible for a low-damage weapon to hurt an opponent with decent armor. I would like a critical result that bypasses armor and/or that increases damage beyond the normal weapon maximum.

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